Gospel values in an increasingly challenged church.
It appears that the recent podcast of an interview with a priest dicussing Carl Jung and cosmic spirituality met with some criticism on the part of listeners. The author misquoted Jung, who said, when asked if he believed if God exists, "I don't believe, I know."
Furthermore, the interviewee is a little far out, even should he have some interesting ideas. This does not make him a threat to any but the insecure. Can one refer to scripture and the gospel in the context of human experience and the human condition, without being labeled a fundamentalist? Can one say, "I have a personal relationship with Jesus (or God, or however you may wish to put it) and still stay in the conversation?
The church is not meant to be a prop that takes the place of genuine faith, but nurtures faith and encourages it. How may one find a genuine expression of faith that may stimulate the intellect and still remain faithful to core gospel values?
There are sructures in the church that run counter to the above, as we know. The issue then, is one of authenticity, to borrow a phrase from the existentialists. An authentic expression of faith is first an honest confrontation with one's conscience, one's self, and others, and the Other with whom we have to do, whether we will it or no.
Can the church tolerate honesty on this level? As Hamlet says in the play by Shakespeare, "By indirection, find direction out." So while confusion exists, a reactionary fundamentalist conservatism does little to create understanding and conversion to God, something we are called to as a lifetime vocation.
I am throwing out these ideas as a stimulus for discussion. If no-one is on the same page, no problem. But ANY church that could take seriously the idea that one can commit a mortal sin by missing church on Sunday, for example has serious problems. Cultic problems. Is it any wonder that a genuine dialogue about matters of faith is so difficult, when one may risk damnation for trifles, and speak one's mind only when one is already one foot out the door? Can we be real, please?
I don't know where nay of this might go, except that if you love the Lord, you want to see His mission acompished both in your life and in the world. To believe that the church perfectly expresses this mission is to betray theGospel. To say the church has nothing to say altogether is to betray the truth. Somewhere, in the maelstrom of opinion and wrangling over heresies is the still small voice of God. Are we willing to listen?
Robert in Hurley
Yes, Dennis, it should
Yes, Dennis, it should generate comments galore.
As of today, it has not.
Yet, as I see it, there is a very fundamental gap between Gospels values and this challanged Church which doesn't even seem to see that it is challanged.
You are right, Frannie, the power structure of the Chruch does run contrary to Gospel values. If the Magisterium were to take a serious look at what Jesus Christ had to say about leadership in his Church it would have to self destruct.
The Sacraments were instituted by Christ to give grace, the Church has turned them into tools of power and control.
The great mysteries of our faith, such as that there is a God the Father, a God the Son and a God the Holy Spirit, have been reduced to "doctrines" and believing the doctrine is more important than having faith in the mysteries they seeks to illuminate.
We call them "Mysteries" because they are beyond the ability of human reason, even human reason guided by the Holy Spirit, to comprehend and explain. Our "doctrines" are not the realities of which they speak. Why, then, would anyone be condemned for not being overly impressed with the doctrine if they have faith in the mystery it represents?
As the great philosopher/theologian Hudda Thunkit was want to say, "Take your anathama and sit on it."
Dear Robert, I couldn't
Dear Robert, I couldn't agree with you more. It is so sad to see all the wonderful, really ethical and really spiritual people I run into, on a fairly consistent basis, who are always seeking for something below the merely superficial "follow the rules" kind of faith. They are thinkers and seekers. When we talk, they express deep sadness that this Church, with so many wonderful thinkers and poets and so many deep gifts, has sunk into this kind of fundamentalist black and white thinking. Even though we can agree gifts are still present, most of them are quite discouraged, dismayed by the cacaphony of conservative voices who appear to be shouting the loudest right now.
As Ronald Regan said: "There
As Ronald Regan said: "There you go again".
The thinkers and seekers and those who know that being Christian and Catholic isn't about rules and regulations are still in The Church. There are "cells" of free thinking liberals in almost every parish. That's where The Church is for us. There are many parishes where the parish administration isn't enslaved as some are by fundamental black and white thinking. You just have to look for them. But, for some, it's easier just to write the whole thing off. Been there. Done that. It was a stupid mistake on my part.
I think "Faith Sharing Groups" within parishes, small groups of folks who share a similar vision of Church and who can get together on a regular basis to share with each other their spiritual journey, are one of the better ways to recapture that sense of being "at home". And, when you've got a few friends it's lots easier to ignore the black and white thinking fundamentalists. So, there are a couple of options. Either sit there and complain. Or, form a faith sharing group of like minded Catholics and get with the business of being Church.
Robert, Thanks for your
Robert,
Thanks for your post.
First off, I would like to affirm that, for me, the Gospel accounts sum up all of Revelation and, as a Christian, I look to the Gospel as the source book of my faith and belief. Without going into great detail, I think that John says it all in chapter 15:9-12 when he writes, "As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Live on in my love. You will live in my love if you keep my commandments, even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and live in his love. All this I tell you that my joy may be yours and your joy may be complete. This is my commandment, love one another as I have loved you."
In thses words, all of the words of Scripture find their ultimate meaning. We are loved by Jesus Christ with the same love the Father has for him. We are to be joyful. We are to love as we are loved. That is the essence of Christianity.
We, sinners that we are, fall short of loving as we are loved but God's love for us continues. We could not be loved more.
Knowing what the "loving thing" is in all situations is difficult and there are no easy answers.
Each Christian must accept the personal responsibility to love as best as he or she can.
No one, not even THE CHURCH, can forsee and pronounce a definitive solution to all lifes problems. Dogmas and doctrines can't do it. Condemnations, excommunications and sanctures certainly can't do it. We can not turn our responsibility over to the decisions of others.
Christ left us with a real challange and I believe that, very early on, the ball was dropped.
Robert: You wrote that the
Robert:
You wrote that the Church has structures that run counter to "core gospel values" and that we all know that. Do we? I don't know that. Care to clue me in as to which structures do this? You also say that it's pretty much ridiculous to believe that if you miss Mass on Sunday it is a mortal sin. Why is it so ridiculous and why is it cultic?
Church Militant, Church Suffering, Church Triumphant
Cool Catholic blogs:
American Papist
The Cafeteria is Closed
Shrine of the Holy Whapping
One is the structure of
One is the structure of power. Jesus gave us the model of service.
I love this miss Mass question. First it's not a gospel value. The only reference I can find is Paul who says don't neglect the assembly of the bretheren. No threat mentioned or implied.
Jesus when he describes our judgment never says: you missed Mass, enter into the fire prepared for you for all eternity. He says this is what you did (or didn't do )for the poor.
Then how does one worship a God who says come and be intimate with me on a regular basis or I will fry your butt for all eternity because I love you.
Also folk of other religions don't bear this injunction. So they can't be damned for violating it. So the church that Jesus ordained to mediate His salvation is on the other hand sending people to hell, people who would have been saved by virtue of their simple desire to do good and serve God had they not become Catholic.
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I'm sorry other folk haven't found this thread.
Don't miss this one This is
Don't miss this one
This is a posting that should generate comments galore, I thought, but it seems to have been neglected. So, NCRcafe members, please join in this conversation.
Dennis Coday, NCR cafe waiter
Justin Robert, Your posting
Justin
Robert,
Your posting is very welcome – thank you. I gather the controversy over the Jungian priest (which I did not follow) boiled down to a debate over the acceptability or not of personal, sometimes unorthodox, interpretations of the Gospel?
It strikes me that because the church is man-made, human, and imperfect, we need to understand that some of its doctrines and actions have not and still do not measure up to the teachings of Jesus. I think we should be compassionate about these shortcomings, collectively work to redress them (through example, discussion, protest) while at the same time also recognizing that the church can and does help people discern God’s word. But as you suggest, its role as mentor, as shepherd, is often compromised.
Given this, as you say, willingness to listen to alternative, creative, even opposing understandings of His word seem spiritually and intellectually honest. I will add that we are free to accept these as meaningful insights, equally free to reject them. One hopes that spiritual exploration, the dialogue accompanying it, in some infinitesimal way reflects the divine.