Affirmation of Vows Day

Dom: What else can I tell you.

Frannie Schafer, If you have checked out Canon Law's Title 111, Sacred Minister or Clerics, Chapt. 1, The formation of Clerics, can 247 B1 and Chap 111, The Obligation & Rights of Clerics, can 277 B1 and you still believe that when a priest is ordained he doesn't take a vow of celibacy, there's nothing else I have to support my statement. When a priest is assigned to a parish, he takes a vow of obedience to the Bishop. Bless his soul.

Dom frannie schfer, please note:
Can.277B1 Clerics are obligated to observe perfect and perpetual continence for the Kingdom of heaven, and are therefore bound to celibacy.

I think that more priests and bishops need to talk about sexuality. I think people find it difficult to think of a life of celibacy because they don't understand it and priests and bishops tend to spiritualize it rather than discuss it.

As a priest and as a "regular" person, I have experienced both. (and I will leave that ambiguous) St. Augustine prayed for celibacy, "but not yet." It takes a mature person to handle it. It is difficult, yet not different than any other persons struggle with sex and sexuality. As a therapist, I have heard many people discuss sex and sexuality. Many married people go without sex for long periods of time. Many others have sexual issues and hang-ups that prevent healthy expressions of genuine sexuality.

We need priests and lay people to openly discuss what it means to be sexual, to be celibate, and to be chaste. Unitl we talk about it, the mystery will certainly lend itself to speculation from those who fail to understand, even celibate priests.

Dom: Before I add anything, I want to express my appreciation to The National Catholic Reporter for allowing me to use this vehicle to express myself, right or wrong. Just think, what publication do you think would print, no less accept my article," Affirmation of Vows Day." Thankyou, NCR.
This additional material is a bit lenghty but I think it reveals where I'm coming from, or where I'm going.
For those of you who have commented on my, "Affirmation of Vows Day," I thank you. My idle mind keeps my retirement interesting and hopefully allows me to contribute constructive thoughts. At our 50th. anniversary, the priest asked us if we planned on renewing our vows. I responded by saying,"no," I wasn't aware that our vows ever expired. In another month, we will be celebrating our 66th, anniversary. God has been good to us. But, If I did break my vows, my wife could have left me, divorced me legally or killed me. But that would not have been legal.
When vows are broken by our religious leaders it effects so many Church going Catholic's (CGC's) in so many ways. These are people that, the minute they are ordained, automatically are entitled to respect, obedience, admiration,financial support and our trust, without any proof that they deserve any of it.When it becomes known that they no longer deserve our trust, the (CGC's) have no control in taking corrective action. The bishop's are the only one's with any authority to take corrective action. We all know, or should know by now, how over 100 bishops have handled the abusive shameful priest's crisis. With over 11,000 allegations, over 2 billion dollars in financial settlements, with more to come, stone-walling information, compounding the situatuion by moving abusive priest's from parish to parish as well as closing Churches, selling Church properties and closing schools with absolutely no imput from Church-going Catholics (CGC's)
Now the bishop's would have us believe that the Crisis is behind us. They proclaim honesty, accountability, openness, accuracy and let the healing begin. But they are just words, phrases that have no true meaning. The leaders that got us in this mess are still the leaders of the church, still in power and control of all the money. The purpose of an, " Affirmation of Vows Day," is not meant to shame priests or bishop's, but a day to remind them that many (CGC's) have lost faith and trust in them and this would be a way for them to show us they are willing to humble themselves and would like to earn our trust and respect instead of having an attitude, which I believe says to us, "we are your leaders just pray, pay and obey this to will pass. I don't think so.
I think it's safe to say, SEX is the predominate reason priest's fail their vocation. There are other reasons but not anywhere close to the priests abuse crisis. It was suggested that maybe a day, once a year, that our Sunday contributions be withheld would be more effective. Forget it. Have you ever heard at mass, a priest discuss the millions of dollars that are stolen from the Sunday collections? It is true you know. Millions of dollars are diverted from the Sunday collections. The Church has known about it for years and just recently, has distributed, to all parishes, security measures that should be taken by each parish, to protect your contributions. The only problem is, the security procedures are not mandatory. Since the Church contributions are 6 to 7 billion dollars a year, a few million is really insignificant, nothing to worry about. Ask your pastor if you can observe the security procedures taken by your parish on any given Sunday and you will be very surprised as to the reception your request will receive. Just think, when did you last hear at Mass, any comments on the Abuse Crises or the millions of dollars stolen from the Sunday collections or how many financial settlement have yet to be settled or how much money your parish has to set aside for the bishop to pay for future settlements. These subject are not discussed with the parishioners at Mass or anywhere and if you want to ask questions on these subjects, don't be surprised if your requests are met with, "why are you asking," or, "do you suspect something is wrong," or ,"don't you trust me," or, " you can be sure, every step is being taken to follow the bishops instructions." You may also be told," you'll have to get written permission from the bishop," " but if I were you, I would'nt want to offend the bishop by making such a request." These are areas that the Diocese and parish Pastors would have you believe, is none of your business. Would you like to make a copy of this and then ask your pastor if it would be ok to insert a copy in your weekly bulletin to see what your parishioners think about these shameful comments? I could be wrong. All these problems are behind us. The hiearchy is doing a great job and they all deserve our trust and financial support. I would not be honest with myself if I truly believed that. Now, having said all this, I want you to know that I have not lost my faith, I'm a Church going Catholic (CGC) I believe in God and I believe in the Catholic Church even though I don't take for granted that all the priest I encounter are good people anymore than I take for granted that all our government elected leaders are honest and not swayed by their financial supporters.

I had not come across this forum topic until you called attention to it in comments.

I agree that everybody likely wonders about every priest whether he is one who has or could sexually abuse a child or has or would otherwise break is vow of celibacy. I agree that every priest likely wonders whether people are wondering these things.

In addition, it has come to my attention on more than one occassion that people wonder whether I have or would break my wedding vows. Would a yearly assertion that no vows have been broken stop people from wondering? I doubt it.

Wondering about such things are the delights of idle minds.

I'm not sure the church needs more "litmus tests". I would assume that priests, probably like me, struggle in fidelity IF you define fidelity as faithfulness to your role, your ideals, your own spiritual growth.

Though I have never contemplated what anyone would call infidelity in my marriage, when I become too wrapped up in work, or hobbies or other activities--no matter the goodness of those activities--I am sometimes pushing away fidelity to my husband, my son, my own spiritual growth. I am letting other things interfere with those "first" priorities.

So the purpose of an affirmation of vows days would be to---do what? Shame priests into compliance with their vows?

Though I think community disapproval certainly has its' place, I think a church community should seek to do what we can to promote fidelity to marriages, to priestly vows, to vows of the nuns or brothers, to vows of chastity for the single catholic. Making sure priests are adequately supported might be a step in a right direction.

So I think that your brief idea failed to articulate _why_ the church would do this, what it would prevent OR promote, and it failed to address other reasons that priests might be pulled away from their vocation and seems to assume the only thing that pulls priests away from vocation is sex (either hetero or homosexual).

I found it an undeveloped idea but did want to respond to your question of why no one was voicing an opinion.

Dom, I'm only now seeing your posting.

The reason I hadn't seen it is that, as the NCR cafe threads grow, it becomes harder and harder for me to see new threads pop up, and often new comments are "buried" when a large number of new comments are uploaded. I use the "Recent Comments" feature to follow what is being talked about, but I lose some good new comments that never make it to that feature, if a large number get uploaded at once.

I say all that to suggest that maybe people haven't deliberately ignored your thread.

But to respond to your posting itself, I first want to say that you're zeroing in on a very important issue, which is to assure that priests live their vows authentically and publicly.

My own inclination is to think that something more than a ceremony to affirm vows is needed for that to happen. I think that the abdication of the priestly vow when children are abused goes way beyond the betrayal of the vow of celibacy.

I think what is taking place when children are abused is an abuse of the whole vocation to be a good shepherd who gives one's life for the sheep. Abuse of children--and of the laity in general--seems to me to be about power more than sex. That is, I think the abuse of people by the clerical system is a betrayal of the whole priestly vocation, in that priests are allowed to have abusive power over lay members of the people of God.

To address that problem seems to me to require that we rethink the whole way in which the clerical calling is seen within the church today. We have to stop allowing those with clerical privilege to abuse that privilege.

At the center of such abuse of clerical privilege are the members of the hierarchy who have persisted in allowing power to be misused, and who often misuse power themselves.

I like the idea of a Sunday set aside to address these issues. But maybe it would be more effective if the people of God used that Sunday to divert funding away from the church as long as there is not truthful financial disclosure, and gave money to other worthy causes? And if the people of God also asserted their right, on that given Sunday, to call for and choose good clerical leadership?

Those are my ideas, for what they're worth. I appreciate your contribution, and hope my response will be helpful.

William D. Lindsey

I don't think parish priests take vows of celibacy. I think they promise to obey the bishop (and this would include the rule of celibacy.)

No I would not like to see the renewal ceremony. It reminds me of the loyalty oaths of the fifties. Or those of ex corde. I take it for granted that the priests I encounter are good people.

Dom; It appears, that after approximately 90 people read my article,"Affirmation of Vows," not one has taken the time to voice their opinion concerning the article. I have to wonder why.